Ep. 8 Coping Skills for Resilience in Difficult Seasons

Fall can be a difficult season for many of us. Nature reflects our inner state: slowing down, reaping the last hard-won harvest, settling in to watch everything turn inward or hibernate or even die. It can be a time of grief and allowing for grief, too. 

Where else are you experiencing a fall season in your life? Is it showing up at home, with family, in your business?

Despite what the business bros would have you believe, this is totally normal.

We (Carin and Kacey) are both going through this in our lives and businesses, and realized that sooner or later, you would be, too. It’s an inevitable season we all face. We hope you’ll let this episode act as your in-the-trenches-with-you support system.

Between the two of us, we break down and share 10 mindful coping skills that help us create more ease in difficult seasons. We purposefully don’t call these ‘healthy’ coping skills, because health is extremely subjective – what may be healthy to one person could have the opposite effect on another. But it feels safe calling these coping skills ‘mindful,’ because we DO use them intentionally, and expect you’ll do the same. 

By being mindful, we can evaluate and choose a particular coping skill depending on what our needs may be for that week, day, or moment.

If you struggle with the self-judgment of even needing coping skills in the first place, are feeling alone or isolated in a difficult season, and want to build resilience for yourself and consequently your business, this is for you. 

In this episode, we talk about:

• Understanding the signals from our mind + body that tell us we need extra care

• How to get from knowing we need care to actually doing it

• 10 ways we use nourishment and comfort to build resilience

• Why buffering or numbing might not be ALL bad (*gasp*)

• The limitations of mindset work and the benefits of taking it all one day at a time

Resources from the episode:

PodMakers Episode 5 Pivoting as Creatives in Business 

Connect with Carin on her website

Connect with Kacey on her website

Transcript:

Coping Skills for Resilience in Difficult Seasons

[00:00:00] Carin Huebner: This is PodMakers. Do you ever wonder how podcasting could help your business or even if you're doing business, right? Do you ever wonder what it takes to start and maintain a podcast or about the reasons for starting or maintaining one? Do you ever wonder what other business owners and podcasters are going through behind the scenes?

[00:00:20] Away from the highlight reels and shiny filters of social media. Wonder with us on Podcasting and how to show up intentionally and be heard. Hey Kacey. 

[00:00:32] Kacey Hayes: Hi Carin. 

[00:00:33] How's it going? 

[00:00:36] Oh, you know I think this episode's gonna be really timely. I think we're both in a really good headspace for it. 

[00:00:43] Carin Huebner: Yes, I think that we're literally living this right now.

[00:00:46] So it's the perfect time to talk about it. I started making my notes this morning and was like, um, maybe I don't need notes for this one. This one's like just so what I'm living right now. So yep.

[00:01:04] Kacey Hayes: Well, as we said, we're both kind of living through this and I was thinking that since we've gotten so much support around our more humans and business episodes, like especially pivoting as creatives, which if you haven't heard that, check that one out. I'll link that one in the show notes for today's episode.

[00:01:22] We thought we would just keep it relevant again. We've both been feeling a need for comfort and to use our coping skills to create a more compassionate like gentle environment. So we wanted to share some of our favorite comfort techniques that ultimately help us become more resilient as humans. 

[00:01:43] Carin Huebner: Yes, I think this is so important right now, like with everything, and I'm sure we'll mention this at some point, but with everything that's going on in the world and then also trying to innovate and maintain a business, I've seen a lot of people struggling in public, just like how to use their platforms right now, what it looks like to push a business right now and offerings right now with so much happening in the world, just, we're just inundated.

[00:02:04] And. All of that happening also in the season of fall, which I think is challenging for a lot of folks anyway. A lot of grief. I think I've mentioned this in other episodes, but a lot of grief comes up really easily for folks in this season, whether the person has experienced a lot of loss in that season, particularly, or whether it's just the triggers of watching so much of this season wind down.

[00:02:27] watching the season wind down, watching things go into hibernation, watching things die off for the season, all of that. And this weekend I was watching a Wes Anderson short film while eating pumpkin pie and drinking a beer. And I texted you and I was like, what is happening? We are in full cope mode right now.

[00:02:48] And so, so you last night, you were like, Hey, do you think we should talk about this? And I was like, I think that's a great idea. And also my, all of my little vulnerability buttons are being Push. So we'll see how we show up today. Hopefully I can share and also it'll come out. Thoughtful and coherent and clear.

[00:03:06] I also had a, I feel like just going back to the season again. Also, I've been in this Reiki training program. I've mentioned it here in this space at our first retreat, we were going through kind of this wondering around the seasons. And the energy of the different seasons and all of that. And a friend in the group said that fall is for nesting.

[00:03:25] She gets out, she like actually spends some intentional time nesting the house, getting the house ready for being inside for winter the whole season. And so she gets out all the softest blankets, she gets out all the candles, she gets out all of that. And one of my clients, one of my podcast clients also has talked about this recently on her show.

[00:03:45] Of just the, it's that time, it's that time to get out the, the cozy blankets and the candles and she's doing kind of a routine of lighting a candle for like dinner or like wind down time every night and just getting cozy. So I think that this is the absolute perfect time to talk about it because we're all tracking on this in different ways.

[00:04:06] Kacey Hayes: Yes. And when you mentioned that I did just switch over like our summer seasonal bedding because I switch it between the seasons. And I switched all that over to the. The fall, like the thicker, fluffier, more pillows, an extra throw, stuff like that. I didn't even think about that, but that's, yes, the seasons do always come into play in our psyche and like in our physical world too.

[00:04:30] And totally. I like that. We acknowledge that and talk about how it affects us as people and how that can show up in business and all the things. Yeah, 

[00:04:40] Carin Huebner: absolutely. Yeah. Jesse came home yesterday from Costco. I literally texted him on his text him on his way and was like, can't wait to see what you find at Costco today.

[00:04:48] Cause he always finds something like usually a food item that he's like, Oh, they had samples of this. It was awesome. So like I brought it home. He brought home a blanket. He brought home like a fluffy, cozy. Blanket. And so it was funny the week before he like got a pumpkin candle from the grocery store.

[00:05:06] So we are definitely in transition mode in our house. So yes, what does it look like in our businesses? But first, what, how do you know, Kacey, how do you know when it's time to start like taking care? Like what are some signs or indicators that it's. It's time to pay attention, time to get the blankets out.

[00:05:25] What does that look like for you? 

[00:05:29] Kacey Hayes: So I did brainstorm on this a little bit in our notes and everything, and it kind of just came out like word vomit, but that is okay. I'm going to go with it. So the first thing I usually notice is my energy levels because I think the way we put these episodes out. The one that comes out before this will probably be the one about setting boundaries where I talked about my chronic illness, so I'm always kind of tuned into my energy levels because of that.

[00:05:56] So when I noticed that they are. Not what they usually are. And I can't really think of any like physical or chronic illness y triggers for that. Like, did I eat something weird? Did I not get enough sleep? Whatever. If I'm just generally feeling sluggish, that's a big indicator. I also will wake up anxious in the morning, which that's not normal for me just to feel like my heart racing before I even get out of bed.

[00:06:22] That's not typically how I wake up or want to wake up. I start procrastinating things that I even. Enjoy doing are things that I know will make me feel better, like exercising or journaling. I enjoy both of those things, but when something's off, I'm like, I don't want to do either of those. And It's like a cycle where I'm like running a little circle in my head of like, I would feel better if I would do it, but I don't feel good.

[00:06:50] So I don't want to do it. And it's like, you have to take the step to do something to feel better. And it's like, well, it would be one of these things, but I don't want to do them. And it's like this whole ridiculous spiral in my head. And I do spiral, I think about worst case scenarios for everything. I want to be left alone.

[00:07:10] Even if I know that's not really what's best for me, kind of self isolate, which I know is not, that's not a healthy coping mechanism for me. Basically, I feel a lot of discomfort and it gets to the point where it's like, I feel like I can't stand this anymore. Like, this is unbearable kind of feeling. And it has to cap off at some point.

[00:07:30] Like, I know that we're both like in the coaching spaces and in the personal growth spaces and all that, but sometimes I do think buffering helps. And it is okay to let yourself have that as a coping skill, like, I'm not hurting myself. I'm not hurting anyone else. And I think to put a cap on it and let yourself, you know, distract yourself or whatever you need to do from this.

[00:07:59] intense discomfort, I think is beneficial in itself because that discomfort, like, quote unquote, sitting in the discomfort can, for me, cross a line into dwelling on my situation and ruminating. And sometimes I just need to buffer it. And that's just where I'm at sometimes. So those are, that's my word vomit version of how I can start to tell when I need comfort and coping skills.

[00:08:25] Carin Huebner: Yeah, yeah, the buffering. Well, I'm sure we'll get into this in a minute, but like the buffering conversation is really challenging. I come from a religious back. Like I've mentioned it here before. I come from a religious background that religious religiosity spills into a lot of things as far as I'm also in Colorado.

[00:08:43] So there's like a massive like health culture, a lot of pressure on health And so at some point I feel like I received from a religious community combined with like this health culture that leaning on anything, you know, like leaning on anything or like numbing in any way, like basically that any sort of coping is bad.

[00:09:02] And it's like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. Like we have to cope like, or we don't survive. So that's a really interesting point that you bring up. I definitely noticed that I, and this is funny because this is literally what's happening right now. I was just telling Kacey in the pre show that my partner and I, we are very, we have pretty strict boundaries about our energy levels.

[00:09:23] And so like we have a rule as far as like one thing per weekend that we can commit to and then we'll go through seasons where we say like, don't commit to anything. Like everything's a maybe unless like it works out like that day or whatever, just because I feel like we do have a large community. We have our feet in a lot of different communities.

[00:09:40] And so we do get a lot of invites for things. And it's really hard to know what we really want to say yes to in the moment versus, and then I also experienced, I have no understanding of a calendar in my brain. So if I don't, I'm not actually literally looking at a calendar, I have no concept of time. If somebody is asking about next Tuesday, I don't realize that that's like next Tuesday, like unless I'm looking at something and I have no idea what else is happening between then and now.

[00:10:11] And so like, I'll be like, Oh yeah, that's great. And then like, Come next Tuesday. I've probably said yes to like eight things. And I'm like, Oh shit. So long story short, we're in a current season right now where we've said yes, our October is completely slammed. We did like three things this past weekend.

[00:10:26] And it's so funny. I feel like everybody gets really excited about fall and then like plans all of their parties for October. Literally, we also have Like, Jesse and I's birthdays are in December, our anniversary is in January. We celebrate Christmas, we usually do something for Thanksgiving with family.

[00:10:44] We have some friends, really close friends birthdays, both in October and November. Other family holidays, anniversaries in November and October. Just it is like, once we hit October 1, we are like, all right. See ya end of February, like see you March 1, like it is just so, so, so full. So we did it. We did it again.

[00:11:06] We have over committed our October. We broke our own boundaries, which is fine. Like it's good. It's fine. We're getting so much socialization. We're getting so much like inspiration from that time. We're also just really tired. So I am going into full on hermit mode. Which, like you mentioned, I start, I notice I'm bailing on plans.

[00:11:26] I can't commit to plans. When somebody asks me if I want to do something, I'm like, like, I can't, can't say no. Can't say yes. Like I have no idea. I avoid looking at my calendar to make a decision. I don't want to do anything like I don't want to go places. I don't really want to leave the house. Usually tunnel into social media during this hermit mode, which makes it kind of worse because then it looks like everybody's out there doing like all these wonderful, amazing things and I'm like not leaving the house and then I get super overwhelmed by social media and then like kind of shut down and go further into hermit mode.

[00:12:01] I definitely like isolate. But my close friends know this about me, and they know kind of my attachment style, so when I start feeling overwhelmed and I start isolating, they can be really gentle with it, but also be present for me. Body signs, I start getting tons of heart palpitations. You mentioned sleeplessness, or waking up in the morning with anxiety.

[00:12:23] I, the other night had gone to sleep for a little while, woke up at like four and was just like, I woke up my partner, I woke Jesse up and was like, can you help me? Like, I wasn't having a panic attack, but was just really flooded by anxiety. And he was like, what are you worried about? And I was like, everything.

[00:12:41] Like I just named all of the things that are on the calendar, you know, or the work things that I'm trying to do, like all of the things that are kind of rushing in, I get particularly irritable, especially when I'm asked to, this is as an Enneagram for this is my kind of hot button anyway, but I feel expended.

[00:12:56] So then when people ask me to do more, Or I have to correct something or like a client wants me to redo something, anything like that. My partner asking me to do more around the house, my daughter asking me for more energy than I can give anything like that. And so I can't stand my family. I think the world is ending.

[00:13:14] The dread rushes in. I think things will always be this way. All of that. So like the really negative, like, that's a big one. Me too. It'll always be this way. Like I just, I always picture of like, Oh, I'm just laying down in the river and letting the river take me. Here we go. And then in my business, not different than hermit mode, but I don't have any energy or desire to do the things that I love doing.

[00:13:40] Or I start getting really moody with my business. Like thinking, starting to think things like, why am I even doing this? Is it worthwhile? Am I even good at this? You know, like the really, really big questions. 

[00:13:51] Kacey Hayes: Yep. 

[00:13:52] Carin Huebner: Yep. 

[00:13:56] Kacey Hayes: Yeah. It's landing. It's landing with me. Take, 

[00:13:59] Carin Huebner: take a deep breath, everybody. I know that was a lot.

[00:14:02] Take a deep breath. It was a lot of negativity. We're okay. So then what do you do, Kacey? I mean, especially with some of those last things that I mentioned, like those jump off of our really deep kind of processing and questions all the time. They can be like, am I enough? All of those things. I mean, judgment for self obviously comes in really quickly.

[00:14:21] Yeah. How do you get past, like, judging yourself and, like, reconcile with needing some extra care in this season? 

[00:14:31] Kacey Hayes: How do we indeed? That's a great question. And I, I had that as a question for us both, but also for me. Because I know for me, that's the stage where I get hung up. Because between noticing, like, I should probably try to do something different than sit here and doom spiral myself into oblivion.

[00:14:53] Then it's like, well, why do I need that? Like other people don't need that. Why, why do I need these things? Like, you know, the stories that we have, depending on how we were raised and the stories we were given and all of that. And you mentioned your religious background and I have that too. And I'm, I'm still, I think I don't have as much of a grasp as you do.

[00:15:14] being a spiritual director with how much that still affects me every day. Yeah. But there's a lot of self judgment 

[00:15:21] Carin Huebner: for 

[00:15:23] Kacey Hayes: like having needs. Basically, when I realized I have needs at all. It feels weird, like I shouldn't have them, or like they're, that's too, I'm asking too much, or I need too much, or whatever it is.

[00:15:41] So that's a place where I get hung up, and I think, honestly, I have to get so sick of feeling that way. that I'm just, I am somehow pushed past the judgment and I'm like, okay, what's something that I can do to make myself feel better? How, what's a coping skill I can use? What's something I can do to give myself some comfort amidst all the discomfort?

[00:16:02] Because sometimes we can't really control the discomfort. Like we're always told to like sit with it and learn from it and all of that stuff. And I understand that that's valuable, but sometimes I think you just need to take the off. Like sometimes it just feels like too much. And I think for me, I don't know if there's like a formula, I'm looking forward to your answer to this too, because I think for me it's just getting to a point where I feel so sick of feeling this way, that I'm like, okay, whatever, I need what I need, what do I need right now, and I'll just do 

[00:16:35] Carin Huebner: it.

[00:16:36] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's the tough thing is that like, our brains are meeting making machines, right? And that anything that comes up, our brain gathers all of this data around what has been in the past, or like takes the easy routes, right? Like the quick, the quick jumps, which are usually from our past narratives, or our past indoctrination, our past conditioning, like all of that.

[00:17:03] And so, In a space where we feel like, Oh, I'm really low energy, which means I'm not showing up in the ways that I want to show up, our brains make all kinds of meaning around why, why I'm not showing up the way that I need to show up right now. And culture can be an extremely loud voice. It's just like family of origin can be an extremely loud voice in that space.

[00:17:28] Sometimes those say the same things, but judgment comes in so quickly because we're assigning meaning about who and how we are based off of what we're able to do or not do, or even if it's not that cut and dry, if we're able to show up in the way that we want to or not. And sometimes that's to avoid like the disappointment of it all, right?

[00:17:48] Like it's easier. Especially for folks that have experienced childhood trauma to blame themselves for things rather than the conditions or the circumstances. So for a lot of us right now, it being fall, that means that there's a lot of moodiness, a lot lower energy. I mean, even for folks, like I know some folks suffer from like allergy stuff in the fall, more than the spring, that kind of thing.

[00:18:14] Like, okay, that's like how your body works. That's not something that's like. Like necessarily wrong with you. Right? Like, so thinking of that, even in my emotional state. Okay. This season's really hard for me. I celebrate a anniversary of my darkest depression in the fall. And that has an impact in how my body shows up.

[00:18:37] My body remembers that. That is just That's how it is for me. And what you were saying too around like buffering or like having to kind of like check out of it to some level, like I'm not gonna encourage like complete and total numbing. That's where like we can get into some really tricky areas with substance use and that kind of thing.

[00:18:59] But like being really mindful of like, okay, I'm choosing to numb. Okay. I know that. Like, and just like in the being in the noticing process rather than the like making meaning process or the judging process, like we all have to numb. We all have to dissociate to some extent. Like we all have to give space.

[00:19:18] And that's actually a really trauma informed. Method of being because there's no way that we can actually look at all of our stuff all of the time. Yeah, same way that there's no way that we can actually look at the news cycle like and pay attention to the new stuff 100 percent of the time and folks that are doing that there's probably a trauma response reason That they're doing, that they're able to do that.

[00:19:45] And so being able to take this space, being able to say, like, I know I don't need to eat a piece of pie and watch a movie and drink a beer all at the same time every single day. But like one day a week, like in the middle, you know, like that's different. You know, like, so how do I get past like judging myself for needing extra care?

[00:20:08] I think. I've been working on my brain for a lot of years through one of my coaches, my friend Nate says, what is so, and trying to avoid judgment in that. What is so, okay. This is a really hard season for me. That's just what's so, Oh yeah. Like, and like my business isn't a real, like we're like, there's a big culmination right now.

[00:20:30] As an entrepreneur, I'm in a famine. I'm in a famine right now. It is not feast season. So all of that comes with a, uh, intensity to it. I have to say things out loud in order to realize them a lot of the time. So I'll be like, Oh, I'm feeling all these kinds of ways and I'm making myself all wrong because of it.

[00:20:51] Oh, let's talk about like, let me tell, even though I'm a kind of, I don't know, I still assume sometimes my partner's going to be like, what's wrong with He never is. Spoiler alert, uh, I have to tell him, I tell my partner what I'm feeling and he usually has some grounding big picture things that I can't see that he can see, Oh, we're in a really hard season.

[00:21:09] We've been doing a lot. Your business is taking a lot more energy right now in a season where also the holidays are coming. Family's asking for more energy, all of the things, right? I tell my coaching cohort. I probably tell Kacey via text, Oh my God, I'm eating pie and beer and a movie. Other friends in business also who are able to be like, maybe you just need some rest.

[00:21:31] Like maybe this season's a lot, like maybe you just need space, but I have to say things out loud and then being really tender with myself and I'll talk about in the next part, like how I, how I find that tenderness for myself because it is also really hard once I noticed that there's something going on, I want to treat it as a problem that needs to be fixed so I can go into like hyper fix mode.

[00:21:57] Same. Yes. And the tenderness being real extra tender and taking care or self care. There's a very fine line for me between trying to fix and trying to take care. So, so now that we know that we need to use coping skills, we're ready to receive some comfort. We know that we need the cozy. We know we need a cozy space.

[00:22:17] We need some nest time. What methods do you turn to Kacey? What do you use? What do you find comfort in? 

[00:22:26] Kacey Hayes: Most often, binge reading books. I have the Libby app, I have a Kindle Unlimited subscription, and I have been tearing through some really good fiction. Holly Black. Which is, she's a fantasy writer. Also, who else have I been reading?

[00:22:45] Emily Henry. I just finished a Colleen Hoover, which was okay. I like a lot of her books. I've read so many of her books, but this one was like, eh, it was okay. Just, I feel like I need a book in my hands at all times. I need, I need another story to be in and I love all fiction. They talk about like, well, what's the purpose of fiction?

[00:23:08] Like, if you're not reading for some, something to apply to your life or whatever, like, what's the purpose of it? And it's like, well, that is like when you read fiction. You are feeling empathy. You're feeling, you're learning lessons from the characters. You're learning from their life arc. You're learning their lessons.

[00:23:25] I think it teaches you to look at things differently. It teaches you that there are like infinite numbers of stories of what other people are going through. I like the way it taps into my imagination like that. It completely takes me out of myself where I am spending way too much time lately and getting real up in my own head.

[00:23:48] And reading is a great comfort for me in that way. And then a close second is baking. And obviously eating what I bake last week, I made some cookies and I ran into the kitchen when they were done and will was in the kitchen and I was like, my emotional support cookies are done. And I like took him out and 

[00:24:09] Carin Huebner: he was like, you're what

[00:24:13] Kacey Hayes: I was like, they're going to taste so much better because they're emotional support

[00:24:20] cookies. That's a good one, though. That's a tried and true. And I feel like. Eating gets such a bad rap for a coping like you shouldn't eat emotionally and you shouldn't overeat and I'm not talking about binge eating or like where you're eating to the point of hurting yourself. I'm talking about like simple pleasure of eating.

[00:24:43] Enjoying a warm, gooey chocolate chip cookie out of the oven, like, sometimes that's just, I feel like, what my soul needs on, like, I know it's not necessarily nutrition or whatever, but it's like the nourishment, the, like, nurturing of yourself. Whenever I want to take care of myself, I tend to bake myself something.

[00:25:04] I was telling a friend of mine that the other day. I was like, I just feel loved and cared about when I bake myself something. So I do that. Something that I hate that I do, but I do it anyway, is I scroll for stupid funny reels on Instagram.

[00:25:21] I feel like that's so not a sophisticated answer or like an attuned answer, but in all transparency, I do that. Like some days, Especially last week. It comes and goes, like I'm not in that phase right now. I don't really care about Instagram right now, but last week there were days when I was thumb scrolling for like an hour and I thought it was like five minutes.

[00:25:44] I look up and an hour has gone by and I'm like, holy crap, I've got a new drawer. Yeah, that was me yesterday. 

[00:25:52] Carin Huebner: I'd like processing audio and it was like three minutes to process and I would be like, okay, great. Or to render, and I would be like, hop on Instagram, and then be like, oh my God. 30 minutes later I would be like, shit.

[00:26:03] Like how am I gonna get this done today?

[00:26:06] Kacey Hayes: We're the same person. I'll upload like an audio file to get the transcription for it. And it takes a few minutes and I'm like, I'll just look at Instagram while that's loading and transcribing. And then 30 minutes later, it's like I'm laughing at the screen and then normally, 

[00:26:20] Carin Huebner: yeah, normally I would be like, okay, it's time to put the phone in the other room.

[00:26:24] But yesterday I was like, this is just where we are today. This is what we're doing. And like, I can choose to get off if I need to. Or also like I finally, at some point it was just like, cause I couldn't keep my eyes open either. Thank you. Eclipse season. Also, I just went in like laid down. I didn't even sleep because I'm anxious enough that I like couldn't sleep for a nap, but just laying there with my eyes closed and that like kind of in between twilight kind of space was just like exactly what I needed to be able to come back to my desk and like crank out some work before six o'clock before the work day was over.

[00:27:01] So I, the scrolling most of the time, I'm like, yeah, we need to get off this, like, because it also just puts me in a not good headspace, but there are just days where like, this is just how we're working today. You know, this is just what's happening. 

[00:27:17] Kacey Hayes: I'm allowing it. I'm allowing it. I'm allowing it. This is like, I'm giving myself a pass, a free pass.

[00:27:24] Yeah. 

[00:27:24] Carin Huebner: And that's what I think is like, sorry, I'm totally interrupting you, but like, I've even, that's what's so hard about all of this is because we're given so much around, like, especially with so much mental health stuff on Instagram now too, there can be so much content around like the right ways. To take care of yourself and the wrong ways to take care of yourself.

[00:27:44] And I think that gets super perfectionist. See, I think that that has like a spirit of religiosity to it. I think we can really miss ourselves in some of that. And I think some of it really comes from that energy of just like, just keep going, do the best, be the best, be the best coper, be the best with like taking care of yourself.

[00:28:06] And it's like, Jesus, like we. You know, like, that's the antithesis of what we're trying to do right here. So, anyway. 

[00:28:16] Kacey Hayes: And too, like, on social media, it has to be so general to apply to the most people that it has, the messaging has to be so watered down. There's no room for nuance or what individuals need when you're absorbing that type of content.

[00:28:31] But we still internalize it because that's what we absorb so much of it every day. 

[00:28:35] Carin Huebner: And it's just something else we add to the, like, I'm wrong. Like the like I'm wrong folder. I'm wrong. How am I doing this wrong? I'm wrong. 

[00:28:42] Kacey Hayes: How can I get better? Which means that I'm already not doing it in the way that's like optimal.

[00:28:48] This whole optimization crap in our culture is just like, I'm over it. 

[00:28:53] Carin Huebner: Yeah. Like we're machines. And I think there's a special space. I'm just going to shout this out because I always do. But I think that there's a special space for women in this conversation also because we do experience so much of that pressure to do everything perfectly.

[00:29:06] And especially women in business. Like we are told to keep up. We're told we have to work extra hard and work doubly hard in order to keep up. There's just a lot of messaging around it. So there's a lot that can come in as far as perfectionism or that we're not enough or that we have to cope in some way or that we're not allowed to slow down or cope too.

[00:29:27] Kacey Hayes: Yeah, I feel that. I feel that really, really hard. And I also, one of the things that I do to kind of ease myself through these Seasons that feel so hard. It's all rewatch my favorite shows. Yes. Or movies for like the 

[00:29:43] Carin Huebner: thousandth time. Oh my gosh I'm 100 percent I know people like have different opinions on this.

[00:29:48] I am 100 percent a rewatcher. I Love rewatching and I've actually learned that it's like for some of us. It's just Knowing what's gonna happen and being able to enjoy that Is really important for our little, our little selves are traumatized beings like we just it's really good for us to know what's coming to be able to just like just enjoy everything within knowing exactly what it's going to look like

[00:30:15] Kacey Hayes: it's very comforting.

[00:30:17] It's very soothing to our anxiety. Yes, there's no scary unknown like what's going to happen. Yes, you already know what's going to happen and you get to rewatch it and I'll rewatch it for like different characters you Reactions to what's happening. Yes. It's that's enjoyable for me like right now I'm doing it with new girl, which I've already watched all the way through like 20 times and I'm like, I don't care.

[00:30:40] Start at the beginning. Let's watch it again. Yes. And like this watch through. I'm focusing more on Schmidt. I'm like how I never noticed that Schmidt is this awesome before I'm watching like the Nick and Jess, but now I'm like, you know what Schmidt can have his 

[00:30:54] Carin Huebner: own show.

[00:30:59] Kacey Hayes: Well, the last thing on my list is it sounds like survivalist type thinking, but, and it kind of is, but it's helpful for me is I really limit my thoughts to what'll get me through the day that I'm in. And that's something that I've been figuring out. Like the last couple days last week, it's very timely, like it's something I am in the middle of right now because I just, you know, paying attention to my energy levels again, it's like there is a time suck energy suck happening somewhere.

[00:31:32] Where is it? What is it? And it's like, I think I'm worrying way too much. about things that haven't happened yet, about things that might not even happen. Like, I don't know if they're going to happen or not. And then I'm like, Oh my God, I'm freaking out because I don't know. And it's like, how much can I keep doing that every day?

[00:31:52] And just like wearing myself out, wearing myself ragged. I get irritable. I don't like to be short with my husband. Like he's done nothing wrong. He's been so supportive through all the, the business stuff that's been going on right now and transitions and. I kind of have to, it feels like I'm talking to a young version of myself, and maybe this is inner child work.

[00:32:12] I'm not sure if it is or not, because I'm not, that's not my expertise, but it's like, okay, I, someone needs to step in, someone being another part of me, needs to step in and kind of stop this, because You're like running around in circles, wearing yourself out for no reason. Like it, it doesn't help you move anything forward.

[00:32:35] It doesn't help you like regain focus. It doesn't help you take care of yourself. It's like, it's not really doing anything except draining your energy. So all of that to say. It's not like I refuse to look at my calendar for the rest of the week because I'm only thinking about today, which is Tuesday, and I'm not going to look at it.

[00:32:55] It's just that I'm not going to like project my worries and fears onto it. I'm not going to overthink things. Like sometimes when I have a lot of scheduled meetings coming up. I will overthink about each one. Like I have a discovery call this week and I have a couple of coffee chats booked with people that I haven't spoken with very much in the past.

[00:33:15] So we don't have like a, a rapport and I'm like, Oh, how's that going to go? I'm a little nervous. What are they going to think of me? What am I going to think of them? What am I going to say? Is it going to go well? What's it going to be like, like all then it's like, Shh, just think about today. Today you are recording with Carin.

[00:33:33] You're recording for pod makers. That's what you're doing today. And then in a little while, you're gonna do some client work, and then you're gonna carry on with the rest of your day today. Yeah. But not to project like all of the anxiety and unknowns and like wondering of everything because my brain is trying to like create some sense of what it perceives as stability.

[00:33:56] Yeah. Something predictable. Yeah. It's like it's, I'm just in a season of a lot of things are new. I'm taking a lot of coffee chats. I've had a lot of discovery calls. Which are 

[00:34:07] Carin Huebner: great. 

[00:34:10] Kacey Hayes: And I want to focus on being more grateful for that than making it something to worry about. 

[00:34:16] Carin Huebner: Yes. That's, I literally, like, after the night that I was, like, so anxious all night, the next day I was like, Huh.

[00:34:26] Like, these are just Things with people on my calendar and it really is the overthinking that becomes like too much around it Like I literally like one of the things I was so stressed about was like, I'm having a few friends All powerful women that own businesses where I'm having them over for dinner on Friday I was, like, spinning out about it, which, like, just shows, like, where I'm feeling about myself, like, insecure about myself, but, like, what am I gonna eat?

[00:34:54] When am I gonna get the house cleaned? Da da da da da da. And I just had to be like, Carin, if your house is dirty, and you come they come over and you have tacos from the taco truck down the street, like, people will love it. It will be fine. And if they judge you, they can leave like whatever. Like it doesn't, I don't have to spin in circles on these things.

[00:35:13] Like I resonate, I just resonate with that so much because I think I know when I start knowing the things are on my calendar, but I don't get into the super, the super focus of each day. I'll be like, well, there's this and there's this and there's this. And I have to show up in these certain ways to all of these things.

[00:35:29] And just to be like, Nope. Yeah. Nope. I show up something. I pulled a card the other morning. That was like, trust yourself. Like essentially trust yourself. It didn't really say that, but it was like, trust yourself. Like something I've been working on is you make good decisions. Like Carin, you make good decisions.

[00:35:48] You can trust yourself. So like these weren't bad decisions to say yes to all of this stuff. And I don't have to portray this, like Carin that needs to be portrayed. Like I just show up, I just show up. But that's the thing is working on the comfort and the safety to be able to go to the just show up space versus like, Oh, I show up in this way.

[00:36:07] So then I'm accepted, accepted in this place, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Which is totally in our child work. It's all in our child work. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing all of those. I just resonate with So much. I will go through my little list. I made one one's like a giant bucket and I'll try to hit on the things quickly within it.

[00:36:25] I moved this one to the top because you talked about it early on. Engaging story is really, really big for me. So it's really important for me to get out of my own life because I have a tendency to overthink and want to figure and fix everything. Figure everything out, fix everything. So I have to engage story.

[00:36:43] So if we sit down, I'm feeling higher, higher stress. I'm needing comfort. And my husband's like, do you want to watch this documentary? Big no, no documentaries in coping season, no documentaries, nothing that's like based off of like real life, unless it's like one of those stories it's like based off of real life, but then it's like this whole fictionalized story.

[00:37:05] So like this weekend, for example, I watched Wes Anderson's one of my favorite directors and writers. I watched the role doll. Mini movie that Wes Anderson made about Henry Sugar and it was just like, it was so good because it was also like a play on film, the way that he did all of the sets, the way that the narration was done, like all of that.

[00:37:27] So it was super fun to just like, I just need to be able to dip into these worlds, these other, these completely other worlds that is not my life. I'm currently reading a, this is like the best I've been telling. everybody about it. I told you about it like for an hour the other day. I'm reading a series right now, a book series on Amazon unlimited.

[00:37:47] And I don't know if you can get it anywhere else, but it's a like space series. It's a fiction series. And every story, it's like essentially a collection of essays or short stories. Every story is about like a 45 minute read. And every story is written by a different author. So it's all kind of the biggest names in space, like the space fictions area.

[00:38:13] So that's been really helpful for me because there's a little bit of that dystopian, like this is where we're going, like the like intensity of like futuristic space stories, but it's light enough that and far enough from my everyday reality that I can just like completely dive in. I've heard this is true for people with like romance novels too, to be able to just like indulge in a story which I tried that and I wouldn't recommend the authors that I tried because it was too intense for a kiddo coming from purity culture.

[00:38:42] Ask for help is really big for me in these seasons and the one that's coming to mind right now like I know I really struggle with asking for help so like don't think I'm the poster child for this. I'm really bad at it. I'll have to ask my partner for a little bit more care. I have to ask for my partner for a little bit more gentleness.

[00:38:58] Like, and I'll just name things. Hey, the sink is a complete disaster. Not that that's my job, but like, if it's my role to like clean it up that night, because he's doing like all the kiddo sleep stuff, I'll be like, I am going to do it. I'm going to do it in my time. Just like asking for space on things. Ask him for help, like even with my friends coming over this Friday, we need to, I would like the bathrooms to be clean.

[00:39:21] So like, he's going to help me clean a little bit for that to happen. So that I'm not carrying, I essentially don't want to carry any load totally myself because I do that with all of my work. So my life needs to, I need to have support in my life. Yeah. And a big one for me in these seasons, especially like with major coping seasons is asking for child care.

[00:39:41] We do not have any child care at all, pretty much. We tag team child care throughout the week. My daughter will go and stay at grandparents houses, that kind of thing. And so we'll be like, oh, it's time. It's time for space. It's time to ask. It's time to ask for some child sleepover or something like that.

[00:40:03] Because. Yeah, my friend literally last night that has her kiddos in child care five days a week and was like, Carin, I don't know how you do it and I'm like, I always forget this. I just forget that not everybody's life just looks like this. So asking for help. I pay attention to creative projects without the pressure of actually doing them.

[00:40:22] I allow my mind to go to the wondering space about them. I'll collect supplies for them, but not forcing myself just so that I know that I'm doing these things or I'm tracking on these things that give me life versus I'm not making myself sit down and perform on them. I'm not making myself like, Oh, do the thing.

[00:40:39] I'm like, okay. Like collage is my biggest thing lately. I, it is the slowest process. I got the magazines. That I'm interested in because I found them at the thrift store the other day. Yes! I am slowly looking instead of just going to Amazon and buying a cutting mat that I want. I'm waiting for it to come to me.

[00:40:57] So like asking around, going to the thrift store. I actually found one. I just need to see my friend that has it. And she has like a whole bunch of blades and like all this stuff too. But just being really gentle. Okay, part of my project right now is just finding materials and like being really, really gentle with that.

[00:41:12] Hmm. I love that. Thanks. This is such a cop out. You're going to laugh at me, but I created a whole bucket that's just called mental and spiritual care. So I'll try to name these like really quickly because y'all know I'm a talker. So my morning sessions become higher priority. I've not been engaging them over the last week because it's been really, really hard to get up.

[00:41:31] And now I'm at the point where you were saying like, where you're like, you just hit that point where you're like, something has to change. Okay. Something has to change. I've got to get up before my child. I've got to be doing my meditation and my morning pages, my wisdom readings, which could be an Oracle deck poll or like a prayer from a prayer book, something like that.

[00:41:50] I need some sort of wisdom reading moment in my life. I need cleansing. Whatever that looks like each morning and grounding again, whatever that looks like, it could be a self Reiki meditation, anything like that, which also helps with, you said, like noticing thoughts and just paying attention to be able to reset beliefs, noticing what I am thinking without going into the intensity of, because like I said, the fine line of do better, be better versus like actually taking care.

[00:42:20] So just noticing my thoughts and being like, yeah, that's a harsh thought. Rather than maybe like fixing it or like, let's do the work to fix that thought or belief. It's like just noticing, okay, that's a harsh thought. That's probably from do better, be better culture. Putting the phone down after I do my binges, I will go through a season of just like, I'm just not on there.

[00:42:41] I'm just not on the phone. Cause I just, it makes me feel worse. Avoid anything perfectionistic or hard limits. This comes up in the, my next bucket is a cop out too, but my body care space. I've been like, even lately, and I swing here a lot, like, oh, cause I'm a person, I do drink, like, here and there. I do not have a drinking problem.

[00:43:02] But anytime, like, things get hard, and I notice, oh, I'm using, like, a glass of wine as a buffer, I'm like, alarm bells! Like, we need to stop drinking! And it's like, okay. Like, that sounds really harsh. Like, that sounds really perfectionistic. That sounds like adding a new hard limit that would then, like, I have to totally replace, like, that coping mechanism with.

[00:43:25] So, trying to avoid anything perfectionistic or really, really hard, making big life changes, anything like that. 

[00:43:30] Kacey Hayes: Like you said, sometimes when we're in coping, it does feel, you're like, what do I need to change about my life right now? Like, something needs to change. And it's like, now is not the time to make a big life change. Coping season is not the time for that. 

[00:43:42] Carin Huebner: Yes. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And like watching everything, especially with substances, like keeping it mindful, noticing, and also like not judging, like, you know, having a couple of glasses of wine to unwind or like knowing that that's a part of the unwind is very different than like binge drinking.

[00:44:04] So like I have to get really, really remember some of those things. to as far as like what actual limits look like versus like my really, really strict, like, like guidelines for myself. I like that. A funny one. This is just like a super side note. Something we've been doing a little bit lately is like dad jokes at dinner.

[00:44:24] So my daughter like is gonna, she like kind of likes jokes. So the other night I just read her a whole bunch of like kids jokes slash like dad jokes after dinner. And it was just so good for us. It's like kind of the same as going to memes, but even more like just like connecting and like holistic and like all of that.

[00:44:39] So, and then. Reorienting to like, this is in the mental space at some point after I hit that like total, like, Oh, we're at the bottom. We're kind of at the bottom of this space. Okay. Let's reorient to the bigger plan. Like you were saying what has to be done today. But also I have to remind myself, like, where am I wanting to go with this business?

[00:44:58] And not like, that's even too big of a question, but like, where am I wanting to go by the end of December? And like, okay, I've already made a plan for that. Yeah. We just stick to the fucking plan, you know, like I have the plan written down, trust past Carin and do the things that are on the list rather than allowing all of the, like, am I enough, am I doing this right?

[00:45:20] I feel like I'm totally spinning out. Like, is this working? Like allowing the discomfort to lead me to all of those questions and then like either completely reorienting or getting into freeze, allowing the plan that already exists. Just to just be the plan that I follow. So that's all the kind of like mental limitations.

[00:45:38] Body care is really big for me. I've spent years and years neglecting my body, driving her into the ground. So that's something, especially in line with our boundaries conversation, taking care of my body is really, really, really important in this season. And that doesn't mean only eating like clean things.

[00:45:54] That doesn't mean going on juice cleanses, which these are all temptations for me, right? Because I like to fix and I like to make it more complicated and I like to like overcompensate. It means I emotional eat sometimes like my pie. I was like you, like your emotional support cookies. I was like, this is like just an emotional pie right now.

[00:46:14] And it's really tricky. And I would say just where I come from is that in this is I was given, Emotional eating as one of the only coping mechanisms in my family. And so I have a very, very tricky relationship with food, with emotional eating. I'm learning a lot. I am in process. And so anything that I say about eating is with a grain of salt and also keeping all of my journey in mind.

[00:46:39] It goes for movement. Also, I have to move my body and I also have to remember to be gentle. So I will go into shutdown and will not want to do anything. And I know in my brain that movement actually gives me endorphins. Which is something that I really, really need. And I just laugh every single time that it happens after I do a run, after I do a bike ride, whatever.

[00:47:06] And I'm just like, Oh my God, the world looks entirely different. Like, and it's so true. Like, so I just have to move my body, but gently. So this morning went for a run. I, it was a. Walk in the hills kind of day, we walked up all of the hills and ran down and then ran the flats. So, and that's just what I needed to do today and not being hard on myself of like, Oh, I want to get to this place because let's be real.

[00:47:31] I'm not training for anything. I'm just out there to be out there. So like just trying to be really gentle and that can circle back to the ask for help piece too. As far as like, I've been asking Jesse to go for family walks a lot lately or family runs. He runs also. So to be like, Hey, I'm having a really, really hard time choosing to run.

[00:47:49] Can we plan a couple of family runs this week so that we all get out so that I can get out and it's not just all on me. Treats. We talked about soup. You talked about baking soup for me. I love to cook. Oh my God. So like. I know. And it's soup season, right? It's like, 

[00:48:06] Kacey Hayes: I'm making one. 

[00:48:07] Carin Huebner: Yes. If I can just have like a pot simmering on the stove, like every day in the fall and winter, like that's we're good.

[00:48:14] We're good. And I love doing the chopping of veggies, like all of that. Like, that's just a really special time for me.

[00:48:20] Kacey Hayes: I get it though. And I also like when you were talking about movement and exercise and endorphins, sometimes I don't always notice right away. That I feel better, but like later in the day, I'll be humming or something like that.

[00:48:33] When I wouldn't like before that I wasn't in the mood, like I wanted to be left alone. I'm like in a sour mood, but then all of a sudden I'm humming like a fun song. And it's like, sometimes the changes are really small and you might not notice it. But if you stick to the plan, which was another thing that you said that I really loved, because sometimes it feels like you're not doing anything.

[00:48:54] Yes, really, you're sticking to a plan. You do have a plan. You do have a strategy. I mean, I know that we both do. We each have our own plans and strategy for our businesses. And sometimes it feels like, well, I'm not even doing anything. And it's like, but we are, we're sticking to the plan. And that's a big deal, especially in a coping season.

[00:49:14] I really like that you brought that up. 

[00:49:16] Carin Huebner: And not in a like, stick to the plan, head down, do it anyway. But like in a gentle, like, okay, I already have the, I always make jokes about Candyland boards, like, I want to create a course that's like a Candyland board for the new podcaster. Like, we just need like the Candyland board.

[00:49:31] My plan that I made two months ago for the rest of the year. Is my Candyland board that I just follow and I love the Candyland cause you like move backward and forward and like there's treats. I love that. 

[00:49:44] Kacey Hayes: That's genius. I love that so much. That's exactly what it's like. It's not linear. It's not at all.

[00:49:51] Yeah. I love that so much. 

[00:49:54] Carin Huebner: So I feel like that was a lot. I feel like anytime that we can share our personal, like examples of what it looks like exactly for us, like it gives others not necessarily like a way of doing or being that's in alignment with ours, but more so just permission for like, what are your five things?

[00:50:14] Like, I know it sounded like I had way more, more than five things, but like Kacey and I like worked to like name our five things. So there'd be 10 things as far as like our coping mechanisms, our skills for coping in a time of discomfort, whether that's in business, in the season, whatever. And so I think I would ask like listeners, like, what are your five or 10 things that are kind of your go tos that you have in as, as a spiritual director, I would call them in a toolbox or like, what are your resources?

[00:50:43] How are you sourced to navigate a challenging time in your business and in your life, and not even a challenging time, just a low energy time, like, or just fall, 

[00:50:56] Kacey Hayes: yeah, the fall season, like how does it apply to your business? How does it apply to your life? Where else are you in fall? Yes. And think about that.

[00:51:05] Carin Huebner: Yeah. And just so much encouragement around like you, I know we say this all the time, but like you and your business are not separate. You're going to see this showing up in both spaces in your personal life, in your interior world, in your business. And I think navigating like all of that self care and all of that coping.

[00:51:28] Will impact how you're able to show up with yourself and your business. 

[00:51:31] Yes. 

[00:51:32] So if you're feeling the pressure of the season, if you're feeling low energy, you are not alone. And also I am certain that you are resourced and have all the skills to do so. Also something I told a friend the other day, if you are challenged by asking for help, something that I will continue to tell myself, people that are around you, that love you, love to help you when they can.

[00:51:55] What you got, Kacey? 

[00:51:56] Kacey Hayes: Wishing everyone all of the good fall vibes and permission to take it a day at a time if you need to if you're in this coping season. And if you want to connect with us, you can connect with me at kaceyhayes.Com If you want to connect with Carin, CarinHuebner. com, C A R I N H U E B N E R.

[00:52:20] And I hope that this has been inspiring and encouraging for you. 

[00:52:26] Carin Huebner: Yay. Thanks, Kacey. Thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. We love it. Bye. 

[00:52:35] Kacey Hayes: Bye.